What's better for the economy, a richer middle class or a richer upper class?thedailybeast.com
What's better for the economy, a richer middle class or a richer upper class?
Made popular 504 days ago in Society & Religion
thedailybeast.com — What Obama needs to do more forcefully is make the next step of the argument by answering the questions: Why must fairness be restored? What will it lead to? To liberals, it’s enough that it will lead to a fairer society. Therefore, it doesn’t even occur to many liberals that the “What will it lead to?” question even needs to be answered. A fairer society is enough. But for many Americans, it’s not enough. A fairer society is fine, they think, if we can afford it. But what these Americans want is a society where there are lots of good jobs. A prosperous society. So what Obama and his speechwriters should be hoping people summarizing his speeches would say is something like: he’s for building up the middle class and making the rich pay more because things are out of whack and unfair, and because doing so will create a more prosperous society. That’s the missing piece.

In my formulation, then, a happier and larger middle class isn’t just an end unto itself. It’s a means to an end—an end made up of more jobs and greater prosperity. It’s an answer to trickle-down economics: the Republicans say that if taxes are cut for the top 1 percent, prosperity will result; we Democrats say that if we take various steps to help the middle class, some involving taxes and others involving investment, that will lead us to prosperity. Democrats should not be afraid to have that argument. They should relish it.

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Posted by JBeal
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What's better for the economy, a richer middle class or a richer upper class?
A richer middle class
87%
A richer upper class
13%
This is not a scientific survey, click here to learn more. Results may not total 100% due to rounding and voting descrepencies.
User Comments
JBeal
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
Trickle down economics is a hoax.
945call
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
@JBeal, where did you get your degree in economics?

Each group depends on the other. In order to thrive, the owners of business need competent, educated employees and buyers with money to spend. Take any one of those groups away and the total economy will fail.

The only decision any of us can make is do we trust corrupt politicians with our money and to create products and jobs or depend on business owners to create products and jobs.

IBM, Apple, Microsoft and Oracle are examples of the former, Solyndra, the Post Office and Amtrak are examples of the latter.
hank10303
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
@945call -- the buyers you refer to are the MIDDLE CLASS - yet you and your even more idiot republican caucuses refuse to acknowledge the facts. During Clinton everyone did well. The focus was on the middle class not the rich. During Bush we learned the next stop was a major recession and possibly a depression. Ignore the facts all you want - it only demonstrates how brain washed you are. You might consider a new name - 945call-sheep
945call
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
Everyone wants fairness of opportunity. Liberals are demanding fairness of outcome.

In the former, we need governmental laws to keep opportunities fair for all. This is the essential component in the definition of free markets.

In the latter, government decides whose result needs to be adjusted up or down. This is the essential component in the definition of Communism.

Anyone who believes fairness of outcome is better than fairness of opportunity is invited to go live in one of the Communist countries. Just move quickly, they are disappearing rapidly.

Also bring lots of money when you try to move there so the government can share it with those who can’t or won’t succeed on their own.
JBeal
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
I think you're missing the issue, and hopefully not distorting the facts on purpose.

You're entitled to your own opinion, and that's why you did not answer the question; you don't have one.

The bottom line investors are readily and eager to invest their money when there is demand, and therefor we should instill government policies that incentives the middle class and not the rich.
lightdude
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 1 down votes
@JBeal Stupid question. Moving right along without a vote.
945call
Posted 504 days ago
1 up votes, 0 down votes
@JBeal, I have answered the question and I agreed with everyone else. The issue is clear, a richer middle class is preferrable to an even richer wealthy class.

The solution to the problem isn't so simple.

Giving people the opportunity to succeed will grow the size and wealth of the middle class.

Letting the government select the ones that will succeed is not going to grow the wealth of the middle class. It will reduce its total wealth and grow the number of poor people. This has been the result consistently for the past 50 years of entitlement programs and corporate bailouts. Giving government the resonsibility to redistribute the wealth is insane and will be the end of our Republic.
hank10303
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
@945call - Liberals are demanding fairness of outcome -- you have never heard one democrat official say that - you made it up and hope to run with it. NOT! Liberals believe in a fair playing field where the cards are not stacked up in favor of those born with silver spoons. When republicans redistribute the wealth it is a kin to what lazy Whites did during slavery. They claims the slaves were lazy; but who was actually doing all the work? Your claim is very similar. No one has asked for a hand out; people want jobs, fair wages and a fair tax system. All things the rich and the republicans want to deny the 99%, which by the way includes you.

You speak of fair yet you endorse all the things that are NOT fair in the republican party's theories that have been proven to be a failure. A 15% tax rate on investments is not fair when it doesn't produce anything of any value. Investments only make money off of money for the owner. So why are you supporting a 15 % tax rate for Romney when people that actually work and produce goods and provide services pay 30-35%. Exactly what's fair about that. You oppose healthcare reform - when health concerns can bankrupt the average American family; you and republicans have done nothing and supported nothing to protect consumers. Yet you speak of fair. Exactly how is it fair that the average American taxpayer is paying for tax cuts to the rich. How is it fair that Medicare benefits, given to those in need, could be cut to provide tax cuts to millionaires. Explain to us how that is fair?
945call
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
@hank10303

If you honestly believe your first sentence then there may be hope for you. Try this, what do you think redistribution of wealth is? Obama has clearly said he wants to take money from some people, and don't think for a minute he'll stop with the ultra-rich, and give it to the poor. That’s what Earned Income Tax Credit is and it’s what Medicaid is.

If you’re half as intelligent as you think you are you should be able to think this through.
lastbaldeagle
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 1 down votes
Redistribution from the smartest and most ambitious to the dumbest and the unmotivated. It's the liberal democRAT way and how they buy their votes.
hank10303
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
@lastbaldeagle -- if the rich are so smart then how come they didn't see the housing bubble coming?
945call
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
@hank10303

Many did and now they're richer!
lastbaldeagle
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 1 down votes
Trickle up poverty is not a joke however! It's Obamanomics in action.
hank10303
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
@lastbaldeagle - are you suffering from Alzheimer’s - did you forget that Bush and the republican controlled House and Senate caused an economic catastrophe and as a result millions lost their jobs. If not for government safety nets most of those would be on the street of America. If you don't like the increase in food stamps and public assistance then maybe you should tell your republican incompetents the trickle down theory ain't workin. Its not raining money; the American people are being pissed on thanks to the GOP.
945call
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
@hank10303

Did you forget that Barney Frank and Chris dodd said Freddie and Fannie were sound and there was no housing bubble?
hank10303
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
We don't have to guess about this one and we don't have to go way back in history. The documented facts are that during the Clinton administration when the middle class was vibrant, the economy soared and even the rich got richer. Under the Bush administration the trickledown theory was tried yet again and we are the living proof of its failure. They told us it would rain and they were actually peeing on us. If 2 million people buy a car for $20,000 dollars it has a larger impact than if 100 people buy a car for $80,000. I know it involves math and republicans can't add, subtract or multiple. But, they sure know how to divide.
945call
Posted 504 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
@hank10303

Did you forget that Clinton went in whatever direction the wind blew and that he had a Republican Congress that pushed him in the RIGHT direction.. Also the Tech explosion didn’t hurt.
TopSpin
Posted 503 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
Money does not rotate in the hands of the rich.
Money in the middle creates demand and that's where it all starts.
Rich will invest day in day out when they see demand.
945call
Posted 503 days ago
0 up votes, 0 down votes
@TopSpin, buyers need something to demand and that requires production and that means investment and that means people with money. Without that investment you have food being bartered for hand-made clothes and not much more. Who was demanding PCs or iPhones or HDTVs. Investors created the demand. It's actually called Demand Creation or better known as Marketing!

By the way, the velocity of money is excelerated much more by producers of products than by the buyers. Just think of it this way: there are 300 million buyers in this country and about 3 million owners of the tools of production. if 2 million buyers drop out of the market, not a huge problem. If 2 million producers drop out, disaster.
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